June 6, 2019

Ben DiPette

Choir director, vocalist, multi-instrumentalist, and music advocate Ben DiPette schools us on the ins and outs of the Pennsylvania education system. Ben draws on personal experience and talks passionately about the positive impact the arts have on students. And we made a bunch of fun, silly, and weird music! 

This episode includes:

00:00 Sean & Dave Make Music Theme feat. Ben DiPette (Ben on drums and alto sax, Dave on keyboard, Sean on flute and percussion)

10:01 School Choice Blues (Ben on vocals and alto sax, Dave on djembe, Sean on banjo ukulele, washboard, bass drum, and hi-hat)

27:36 32 Years (Ben on vocals and keyboard, Dave on bass, Sean on drums, guitar, and tambourine)

42:44 Improvisation (Ben on drums, Dave on keyboard, Sean on flute)

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May 4, 2019

Geoff Giordano

Multi-instrumentalist songwriter Geoff Giordano stops in this month to jam and talk about his writing/producing process, his upcoming album Ultrafauna, and his compulsion to keep making music!

Geoff's Fourth World Radio Site    Fourth World Radio Facebook     

This episode includes:

00:00:00 Sean & Dave Make Music Theme feat. Geoff Giordano (Geoff on guitar, Dave on drums, Sean on flute, bass, and percussion)

00:11:40 Ultrafauna written, recorded, and mixed by Geoff Giordano

00:31:39 Game of Thrones Main Title Theme by Ramin Djawadi (Geoff on guitars, Dave on drums, Sean on flute, bass, and percussion)

00:43:38 Glitchcraft by Geoff Giordano (Geoff on guitars, Dave on bass, Sean on drums, tenor sax, and valve trombone)

00:52:58 Sean & Dave & Geoff Make [Jethro Tull] Music (Geoff on guitar, Dave on bass, Sean on flute and drums)

01:03:14 Sean & Dave Make Music Theme feat. Geoff Giordano (Geoff on guitar, Dave on drums, Sean on flute, bass, and percussion)

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April 1, 2019

Stephen Kokas

This month we feature guest artist/producer, Stephen Kokas of Sketch Studio! We talk about the music industry, pop production techniques and trends, and then dive into making some hip hop music, a first for this podcast!

More of Stephen's music: Sketch Studio BandCamp

This episode includes:

0:00 S&DMM Theme feat. Stephen Kokas (Stephen on vocals, keyboard, production, Sean on flute, Dave on BGVs)

9:37 Geronimo (Stephen on vocals, keyboard, production, Sean on flute, Dave on drums)

22:14 Friendzone by Stephen Kokas featuring Jamall Anthony, Justin Aries and J. Mouzon

24:33 Woah Woah Woah [clip] from All You Can Do by Watsky

31:19 Dynasty of Destiny by Zorro Gato, C-Hann, and Amanda Jo : Video Link!

42:54 Something Like That (Sean on beatbox flute, Dave on Bass, Stephen on keyboard, production)

52:29 Heroes & Villains from One Letter Shor by Stephen Kokas

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February 28, 2019

Dan Pardo

Pianist, Arranger, Transcriptionist, Music Director, host of Pardo's Turn, and old friend Dan Pardo joins us this month! We talk about his musical life and the projects he's involved in and improvise five very diverse sounding pieces. 

Dan's Website

Pardo's Turn

Limericks of Resistance

This episode includes:

00:00:00 S&DMM Theme (Dan on piano, Dave on bass, Sean on alto sax)

00:10:02 Improvisation 5 - Bluesish (Dan on piano, Dave on bass, Sean on beatbox flute)

00:21:39 No One Is Alone (Sondheim) arr. by Dan Pardo (Live performance from Ethnic Chameleons concert)

00:24:06 Coffee Break (Loesser) arr. by Dan Pardo (Live performance from How To Succees At Business Without Really Trying at the 5th Avenue Theater

00:35:04 Improvisation 4 - Expansive and Lyrical (Dan on piano, Dave on djembe, Sean on flute)

00:52:26 Improvisation 2 - Goofy and Dynamic (Dan on slide whistle, Sean on flute, Dave on tin can, water flasks, and emergency blanket)

01:12:37 Improvisation 3 - 6/8 Clusterfuck in Dm (Dan on piano, Dave on djembe and percussion, Sean on flute)

01:28:49 Improvisation 1 - Peaceful then Groovy (Dan on piano, Dave on djembe, Sean on flute)

01:42:15 S&DMM Theme (Dan on piano, Dave on bass, Sean on alto sax)

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And if you like us, please tell your friends! 

January 30, 2019

Robert Dick

World-renowned flutist, composer, inventor, and pedagogue Robert Dick joins us this month to improvise and talk about his recording process, his musical path, what he's been listening to lately, making a living by being creative, and lots more! 

Explore more of Robert's music, books, and his Glissando Head Joint at RobertDick.net

This episode includes:

00:00 S&DMM Theme feat. Robert Dick (Robert on vocals, Sean on flute, Dave on percussion)

09:35 Choose "Beuy's Blues" at Sue's by Robert Dick, Uli Johannes Kieckbusch & Alfred Zimmerlin from their 2017 album @

22:54 Improvisation (Robert on flute with Glissando Head Joint, Sean on flute, Dave on tin can and flasks)

39:39 Improvisation (Robert on bass flute and vocals, Sean on flute)

01:00:30 Improvisation (Robert on bass flute, Sean on flute, Dave on djembe)

01:21:00 S&DMM Theme feat. Robert Dick

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December 30, 2018

Nellie McKay

Singer, songwriter, activist, and all-around fun human Nellie McKay joins us this month in the first of our three episode run recorded in NYC! We had a blast talking about her musical process and stylistic evolution, our pets, the Poconos, David Byrne, and life in general. We also improvised and wrote some brand new music together. Check out all of Nellie's music and catch her live if you can! 

Links: Nellie's Official WebsiteNellie's Twitter

This episode includes: 

00:00 S&DMM Theme feat. Nellie McKay (Nellie on vocals, ukulele, and percussion, Sean and Dave on percussion)

08:13 My Romance by Richard Rogers and Lorenz Hart from Sister Orchid (2018)

21:06 This is Not the Year (for Mistletoe in the Workplace) by Sean Arawjo (Nellie on Vocals, Dan Pardo on vocals and piano, Dave on bells, Sean on vocals, guitar, uke, bass, drums, winds, and percussion)

27:17 Pigeon Love by Nellie McKay, Sean Arawjo, and Dave Trum (Nellie on vocals, ukulele, and claps, Sean on flute, guitars, drums, and claps, Dave on bass and claps)

38:10 Improvisation (Nellie on piano, Dave on djembe, Sean on flute) 

54:42 S&DMM Theme feat. Nellie McKay (Nellie on vocals, ukulele, and percussion, Sean and Dave on percussion)

54:56 Identity Theft by Nellie McKay from Obligatory Villagers (2007)

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December 1, 2018

Small Episode, Big News!

We talk about how excited we are for our upcoming New York trip and announce our next three guests: Dan Pardo, Robert Dick, and Nellie McKay!!

This episode also includes:

07:27 Cincinnati Scrap (excerpt) by Dave Trum

09:56 Flute and Udu Duo (Sean & Dave)

13:23 Flute and Electric Guitar Duo (Sean & Dave)

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October 31, 2018

Tara Toms

Our guest this month, Tara Toms has been fascinated by sound her entire life and has spent the last several years exploring it in every way she can. An accomplished vocalist, songwriter, and free improviser, she releases solo music and also fronts a band called Weird Year. Find more by following the links below!

This episode includes:

00:00:00 S&DMM Theme (Tara on vocals, kalimba, and electronics, Sean and Dave on percussion)

00:10:09 Improvisation 1 (Tara on vocals and electronics, Dave on bass, Sean on flute)

00:23:38 Improvisation 2 (Tara on vocals and electronics, Dave on bass, Sean on percussion)

00:36:49 Molasses (Tara on vocals and guitar, Sean on bass and drums)

00:47:24 Luna Moth (from Weird Year's upcoming album)

01:03:08 Sorry I'm Always Late (Tara on vocals and guitar, Sean on percussion)

01:04:55 S&DMM Theme feat Tara Toms

Links: Weird Year Bandcamp

Cata Mountain Mouth Bandcamp

Tara Toms Bandcamp


September 28, 2018

illumine Part 2

This month we bring you the second half of our concert/podcast series featuring David, Jodie, and Kaitlyn of illumine!

They are an innovative and incredibly accomplished trio bringing new life to classical music all over the world.

Learn more about out more about illumine here.

Catch up on Part 1 here.

This episode includes:

0:00 S&DMM+Illumine Theme - Arr. David Mathew Brown (2018)

1:55 Four Miniatures for Flute and Drum Kit – David Trum (2018)

I: A playful, dancing movement inspired by Latin American rhythms. Listen for:

•The ABA form of the piece (Theme – Contrasting Theme – Return)

•The B section’s use of long tones to complement the active, busy rhythms of the A section

*Sean Arawjo is the composer of the contrasting theme.  In the first edition of this piece, the B section was an open improvisation, but we loved one of Sean’s improvised melodies so much that it gradually became canon.

II: A rhythmically driven movement that strikes a slightly sneaky tone. Listen for:

•The first theme and second theme, which are in keys a tritone apart (G minor and Db Major), yielding fun, dramatic transitions

•The points when the flute and drums are rhythmically in sync, versus other points where they play opposing one another, filling the gaps in each other’s phrases

III: A quirky movement that showcases the flute’s extended techniques and welcomes the timbre of the hi-hat into the drums’ palate of sounds. Listen for:

• The point after the first statement of the opening theme, immediately restated in rhythmic canon, with the drums delayed by two beats

•The flute cadenza, involving harmonized singing while playing

IV: A return to the danceable and grooving with a movement full of rhythmic surprises. Listen for:

•Tom-toms, tuned specifically to provide bass notes that harmonize with the flute’s melodies

•A saturation of rhythmic figures that play with cycles of 5 – for example, the opening: 1 2 34 5 – 1 2 3 4 5 – 1 2 – 1 2 3 4

20:25 Eternity is like unto a Ring – David Trum (2018)
text by John Bunyan and the composer

Program notes by the composer:

“This piece is a reflection on the relationships between time, love, and eternity, with English writer John Bunyan’s poem ‘Upon Time and Eternity’ framing the work as the text for the first and final movements. The rest of the text is self-composed, though I pulled much inspiration from the writings of Robert Browning, Henry Thoreau, and C.S. Lewis.

Just as ‘The Ring has no beginning, middle, end,’ this piece forgoes a linear narrative structure and instead exists largely within one musical moment, which is explored one layer at a time. This gradual unfolding of musical layers also parallels the introspective journey of the text, as it slowly proceeds from the universal to the more intimate and vulnerable.

I have always loved music that plays with time and context- specifically the way that musical context can frame our experience of a melody or idea. The Sigur Rós EP, ‘Ba Ba Ti Ki Di Do’ [consisting of three tracks of atmospheric electronic music that can be played simultaneously to make one new piece] has long inspired me to explore similar tricks within live, notated music. I am also a huge fan of the sound and aesthetic of backwards audio, as in classic psychedelic rock like Hendrix’s ‘Are You Experienced?’ and The Beatles ‘Tomorrow Never Knows.’ Through this new composition, I have been able to indulge in both of these passions. Over the course of the piece, musical motives and even whole movements overlay, intertwine, and appear in reverse- revealing new insights and relationships between them.”

Text and structure schematic 

37:15 Shower Thoughts – Sean Arawjo (2018)
text by Reddit.com “Shower Thoughts” users – respectively – u/slimmaslam, u/JohnBolia, u/waterdam, u/OyVeyzMeir, u/Gilfmagnet

The piece is based on a popular subreddit, wherein users share “miniature epiphanies” that they have, highlighting the oddities of the familiar. “Showerthought” is a loose term that applies to the types of thoughts you might have while carrying out a routine task like showering, driving, or daydreaming. At their best, Showerthoughts are universally relatable and find the amusing/interesting within the mundane.

I: This introductory movement embraces the concept of minimalism in a few different ways. The instrumentation is a nod to minimalist icon Steve Reich, and can be performed on a budget of literally $0. The text is fragmented in a way that creates several distinct statements, each with a different meaning, out of one sentence. Listen for:

•The irregular phrase length of the vocal line (12.5 beats), the beginning of which is punctuated by clapped accents in parts 4 and 5 throughout the piece. These accents always occur where the words “I’m Lucky” fall in the phrase, whether the vocal line is being stated or not.

•The superimposition of the accents in parts 2 and 3 (every 8 beats), and the few times when the two groups of accents line up

•The final statement, “I’m,” which stands alone as a complete sentence (“I am.”), and is the only word of the movement not accompanied by claps

TEXT by u/slimmaslam:

I’m lucky to be broke at a time when minimalism and sustainability are in style.

II: This flowing, quirky waltz consists mostly of consonant harmonies intended to represent pleasing smells. The tuba is featured in this movement and was chosen mostly for its versatility, however its aural proximity to a certain type of bad smell was also a factor. Listen for:

•The expansive range of the tuba, which begins its opening accompanimental figure in the low register (G1), then jumps up several octaves for a melodic solo in measure 5

•The flute taking over the second half of this melody in measure 9, as the tuba reverts to accompanimental material

•A soaring vocal line, which is set in a high tessitura (range) – lending a measure of class and dignity to what is one of the sillier texts of the broader work

•Rapid harmonic shifts that occur after the main theme, building intensity until the instrumental recapitulation

TEXT by u/JohnBolia:

One big difference between men and women is that when a woman says “Smell this…” it will usually smell nice.

III: The ambiguous meter (often 5/4, but with frequent shifts) and atonality of this movement create a sense of unease, intended to evoke the feeling of being lost and afraid. Listen for:

•A tenuous groove established early on by the drums

•Extended flute techniques used throughout the piece: whistle tones, tongue stops, residual tones, and diffuse tones

•Pointillistic texture, which becomes more active and chaotic, reaching its peak just before the final punchline

TEXT by u/waterdam:

Imagine being naked in a room with people speaking a different language, and they all want to touch you. That’s the life of a dog.

IV: Movement four is a jazzy Christmas carol for the modern era. The repetitive text reflects the numerous and often similar stories of workplace (and everywhere-place) harassment brought to light since the #metoo movement began. In order to appeal to the widest audience possible with this important message, the harmonies, form, and style are all conventional. Listen for:

•The theme, stated in the saxophone and violin parts prior to the vocal entrance, reinforcing its familiarity

•A shift in the piano and drums, signaling the B section

•An improvised section after the return to A, and before the vocal reprise

TEXT by u/OyVeyzMeir:

This is not the year for mistletoe in the workplace.

V: Reading from a multi-colored graphic score in this movement gives each performer the freedom to interpret their own musical line. Listen for:

•Three spoken iterations of the text, each with slightly different inflection

•A steady rhythmic pulse emerging from the middle of the piece

•The interaction between pitched instruments: they are sparse and atonal at the beginning and end, but establishing an F# tonal center in between

TEXT by u/Gilfmagnet:

Music is just wiggly air.

55:50 Improvisation 1 - Dreamy

TEXT submitted by audience member:

Sleep tight, sweet dreams, angels guide.

1:09:48 Improvisation 2 - Muscular

TEXT submitted by audience member:

Oh to have arms like Jodie! 

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August 28, 2018

illumine Part 1

 Our friends illumine join us this month to chat and present new works from our Eternal/Ephemeral concert series in June. illumine is: Kaitlyn Waterson (Mezzo-Soprano), David Brown (Violin), and Jodie Levine Brown (Piano). 

David Brown arranged this month's theme and brilliantly incorporated themes from Sean and Dave's pieces (in addition to his own). Tune in to part two to hear how those themes develop!

Find out more about illumine here.

This episode includes:

0:00 S&DMM+Illumine Theme - Arr. David Mathew Brown (2018)

05:17 Improvisation - Illumine, Sean & DaveRainy, in C

07:27 Improvisation - Illumine, Sean & Dave - Reggae, in F#

18:17 Opposite Day – David Matthew Brown (2014)

text, respectively, by Emily Dickinson, Robert Burns, an anonymous source, and the US Constitutional Committee of Style and Arrangement

I: I Felt a Funeral in my Brain

Brazenly opposing the text from the outset, Dickinson’s poem of agony and despair is bastardized by simple joyousness and frivolity. Listen for:

•Shameless representations of laughter (ie. high registral piano, violin trills, and onomatopoeic laughter in the vocal part)

•”Anti-Text Painting”: When the word is “down,” the music goes up; “beating” is represented by music box sounds, and “silence” is… definitively not silent

•The use of the violin as an accompaniment instrument


I felt a Funeral, in my Brain,
And Mourners to and fro
Kept treading – treading – till it seemed
That Sense was breaking through

And when they all were seated,
A Service, like a Drum
Kept beating – beating – till I thought
My mind was going numb

And then I heard them lift a Box
And creak across my Soul
With those same Boots of Lead, again,
Then Space – began to toll,

As all the Heavens were a Bell,
And Being, but an Ear,
And I, and Silence, some strange Race,
Wrecked, solitary, here

And then a Plank in Reason, broke,
And I dropped down, and down
And hit a World, at every plunge,
And Finished knowing – then

II: A Red, Red Rose

As sweet and romantic as the Dickinson poem is dark, Burns’ text is expressed through mechanical-sounding, unemotional, and sometimes atonal rigidity. Imagine a robot trying (and FAILING) to express love. Listen for:

•A rigid vocal line, designed to obstruct expressiveness

•”Sweetly played in tune,” which ends in an especially dissonant chord

•Repetitive statements of “Dies Irae,” the most popular medieval doomsday chant


O my Luve is like a red, red rose
That’s newly sprung in June;
O my Luve is like the melody
That’s sweetly played in tune.

So fair art thou, my bonnie lass,
So deep in luve am I;
And I will luve thee still, my dear,
Till a’ the seas gang dry.

Till a’ the seas gang dry, my dear,
And the rocks melt wi’ the sun;
I will love thee still, my dear,
While the sands o’ life shall run.

And fare thee weel, my only luve!
And fare thee weel awhile!
And I will come again, my luve,
Though it were ten thousand mile.

III: Eeny, meeny, miny, moe

This dopey children’s rhyme – the inspiration behind Opposite Day – is performed with severity and needless drama. Listen for:

•Relationships between the opening violin line and both the main vocal theme and “Catch a tiger…” violin part

•Depth and gravity provided by the piano tremolo on low B-flats

•Sweeping piano figures and melismatic vocal/violin lines, behaving as though the “Catch a tiger…” text is something profound

•Recitativo on “My mother…” for added drama


Eeny, meeny, miny, moe,
Catch a tiger by the toe.
If he hollers, let him go,
Eeny, meeny, miny, moe.

My mother says to pick the very best one,
and that is Y-O-U!

IV: The Preamble to the US Constitution

Perhaps all of this irreverence could be remedied with a little patriotism. Listen for:

•Again, frequent use of the violin as accompaniment – even omitting the piano for an extended section

•A quote from the beginning of Gustav Mahler’s 1st symphony (played in piano chords), and a chord progression inspired by Anton Bruckner’s 4th – referencing two red-blooded American composers

•Our National Anthem. Definitely.


We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

42:25 Improvisation - Illumine, Sean & Dave - "Old men, old friends sit on a park bench like book ends"

45:02 Improvisation - Frolicsome, in A

1:02:48 The Chimes of the Golden House – David Matthew Brown (2018)
text by the composer

In honor of the composer’s recently deceased grandparents, I. Eagle & Rita D. Levine, “Chimes” is a poetic tribute to their unconventional union that resulted in a large, joyous, and musical family. Adorning the house in which Eagle and Rita raised and partially raised their grandchildren, was a collection of 8-day mechanical clocks – each of which chimed at contrasting intervals and pitches. This, paired with Rita’s gilded decor aesthetic, was the atmosphere in which so many lifelong memories and relationships were established – and from which so much music originated. Listen for:

•Three distinct chimes: the Westminster chime of the steel tongue drum, the shrill chime of the triangle, and the oscillating chime of the piano

•A structure bookended by joyousness and rhythm, representing the energy of the house – and later, that of those homes belonging to Eagle’s and Rita’s descendants (“descendants of the vintage melody”)

•The static atmosphere created and in spite of dense orchestration during the line, “As dust, suspended…”

•A short fugue, leading up to the word, “counterpoint,” as the voice narrates – according to the poem – the entrance of each instrument, relevant to the instruments played by the family

•The use of the wooden backs of the drum mallets to create a colder, more stark effect during, “Stark bell tones…”

•The espressivo piano solo that concludes the piece, representing the composer’s mother (illumine pianist, Jodie), who – through her parents’ passing – inherits the mantle of matriarch. This is followed by eight bell tones for the eight grandchildren who grew up in the “Golden House”


Music begins as the hour is struck. Offset by age, a chorus of metal voices enters the discordant song of the inevitable. The heartbeat of the house tolls with many perspectives – some over, and others understated. Together, they are unlikely but beautiful. Unfettered by the perpetuity of the song, its audience – young and old, at play and at work – live joyously within its realm.

As dust, suspended in rays of sun through the window, a timeless serenity exists between the hours. Deep, golden afternoons could be memories or dreams – vivid sentiments of an ethereal world. If not for the swing of the pendulum, surely no time would pass.

And in this, the meaning of the song is obscured – for time does pass, and the song becomes increasingly beautiful. A piano joins, its own distinguished peal harmonizing – enlightening its predecessors. It beckons a procession of fiddles, then flutes, each bestowing new vitality – new meaning to the venerable music.

Enshrouded in a benevolent counterpoint, the song achieves the impossible.

So many years later, the instruments have departed from a house devoid of its once gilded hue. Stark bell tones now herald the hour in the predictable synchrony of solitude.

And yet, they are the heartbeats of new homes, each with its own unlikely, beautiful perspectives and colors. Descendants of the vintage melody revel as in olden times, enchanted by nostalgia.

The pendulum swings; voices come and go – but the chimes of the golden house are eternal.

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